Comments on: Unschooling vs. Sudbury schooling http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/ A father's reflections on parenting, education, kids, and creativity Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:38:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-707 Evan Lenz Thu, 13 May 2010 21:59:39 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-707 My kids attend The Trillium School in Western Washington (on the Kitsap Peninsula). A bunch of kids just did a horseback riding field trip to a nearby farm, and my 7-year-old daughter might do horse camp this summer. I live in the woods. :-) I've never lived in MA, but I did get a chance to visit SVS's beautiful campus a couple summers ago. My kids attend The Trillium School in Western Washington (on the Kitsap Peninsula). A bunch of kids just did a horseback riding field trip to a nearby farm, and my 7-year-old daughter might do horse camp this summer. I live in the woods. :-)

I’ve never lived in MA, but I did get a chance to visit SVS’s beautiful campus a couple summers ago.

]]> By: KyUnschooler http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-706 KyUnschooler Thu, 13 May 2010 21:04:42 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-706 If it is okay to say, it sounds like yours attend Sudbury Valley in Framingham, MA. If so that is the one I was comtemplating enrolling mine into either this coming school year or next. Was thinking of even visiting up there early June, before Sudbury Valley lets out for the summer, and enrolling them for a week to see how they liked it. Also while I was there I was going to look around to see where to possibly live. I checked into living around Framingham vs living inside Framingham. Heard from some online sites that Framington may not be the place for us. Problem is I have never been to MA and would really need guidance on a city to live in. We love the country but currently live in a city. My husband works as a salesman in our town and would most likely get a job in Framingham as a salesman. That way he can also bring the kids to Sudbury Valley and pick them up after work. I have opened up communication with the UU church in Framingham about any ideas on the area. They did tell me that some of their members children go to the Sudbury Valley School so was hoping to attend services up there before they close services for the summer and hopefully get to meet some of these families and of course try out their church. If you have any ideas on places to live inside MA that is in decent driving distance of Framingham it would be greatly appreciated. We are kind of naturalist and we strive for a vegan lifestyle and hope to grow our own food so that is why I through in "country" as a place we would love to live. My daughter loves horses as well and we would love to be able to give her the opportunity to board a horse nearby a place we were staying where she could go riding as well. If it is okay to say, it sounds like yours attend Sudbury Valley in Framingham, MA. If so that is the one I was comtemplating enrolling mine into either this coming school year or next. Was thinking of even visiting up there early June, before Sudbury Valley lets out for the summer, and enrolling them for a week to see how they liked it. Also while I was there I was going to look around to see where to possibly live. I checked into living around Framingham vs living inside Framingham. Heard from some online sites that Framington may not be the place for us. Problem is I have never been to MA and would really need guidance on a city to live in. We love the country but currently live in a city. My husband works as a salesman in our town and would most likely get a job in Framingham as a salesman. That way he can also bring the kids to Sudbury Valley and pick them up after work. I have opened up communication with the UU church in Framingham about any ideas on the area. They did tell me that some of their members children go to the Sudbury Valley School so was hoping to attend services up there before they close services for the summer and hopefully get to meet some of these families and of course try out their church. If you have any ideas on places to live inside MA that is in decent driving distance of Framingham it would be greatly appreciated. We are kind of naturalist and we strive for a vegan lifestyle and hope to grow our own food so that is why I through in “country” as a place we would love to live. My daughter loves horses as well and we would love to be able to give her the opportunity to board a horse nearby a place we were staying where she could go riding as well.

]]> By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-704 Evan Lenz Thu, 13 May 2010 16:21:12 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-704 Thanks for sharing your decision-making process on this. To answer one of your questions, many parents have sacrificed a lot to send their kids to Sudbury Valley School. Why? Because they valued the experience so much for their kids. In that sense it became a "necessity" for them, but not as some kind of second-choice compromise. Some unique things about Sudbury Valley School are 1) they have low tuition relative to other private schools (and have kept their tuition below public school costs-per-child), and 2) they do not offer any financial aid. So not everyone is able to afford it, even though it is relatively inexpensive. However, many other Sudbury schools, including The Trillium School, offer tuition assistance. The philosophy at Trillium is that no one should be turned away purely for financial reasons. And finally, we did relocate to go to a Sudbury school. :-) It all comes down to what you think is best for your kids. Thanks for sharing your decision-making process on this. To answer one of your questions, many parents have sacrificed a lot to send their kids to Sudbury Valley School. Why? Because they valued the experience so much for their kids. In that sense it became a “necessity” for them, but not as some kind of second-choice compromise. Some unique things about Sudbury Valley School are 1) they have low tuition relative to other private schools (and have kept their tuition below public school costs-per-child), and 2) they do not offer any financial aid. So not everyone is able to afford it, even though it is relatively inexpensive. However, many other Sudbury schools, including The Trillium School, offer tuition assistance. The philosophy at Trillium is that no one should be turned away purely for financial reasons.

And finally, we did relocate to go to a Sudbury school. :-) It all comes down to what you think is best for your kids.

]]> By: KyUnschooler http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-702 KyUnschooler Thu, 13 May 2010 14:27:50 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-702 My children, ages pre-teen to the oldest who just started college, have been radically unschooled. Some chose to try school outside of the home because they have that freedom but also chose to come back home. I like to pride myself in having completed 21 years of personal research into the different styles of schooling and have just recently re-checked into the Sudbury style of schooling. First I would like to say that it is very comforting to know there is a place out there that offers this type of unschooling in a private school setting. I wish there were more Sudbury schools around so that everyone could have the option to attend in their own town. Now having said that, Sudbury schools are fairly expensive and I can't speak for all Unschoolers, but for me we just don't have that kind of expendable income. In order for my children to be able to attend one of these schools we would have to a.) relocate because there are no Sudbury type schools around, which means selling the house we live in and having my husband find a new job and b.) myself going back into the work force, possibly full-time just to afford to enroll them. So my minds is thinking hummm, enroll them and sacrifice working my tush off all year and possibly start to resent it,especially if they ended up not liking it, or continue radically unschooling from home in the town I have lived in for almost 40 years and like a lot. The benefits I see with Sudbury is the networking with others and social interaction. They have lots of things they can choose to do. It would also calm their concerns that they are not "behind" on learning like other kids their age. On the other hand I think I could find things to do as a radical unschooler to open up my child's social experiences if they so choose. One problem I think my kids would have with going into a Sudbury school is that it is mandatory to attend at least 5 hours each school day. I don't think that they would be up to that long term. They love their freedom too much I think. Sure they would probably like it at first but than reality would set in and it wouldn't be pretty for all concerned. So I got to thinking. Why don't I just try and create more experiences for them instead of enrolling them into the Sudbury School? I wonder how many kids that are enrolled into the Sudbury Schools come from two or one parent working households that find it a necessity to have them somewhere all day while they are working? That is not the case for our situation. I am a stay-at-home and supplement my income doing odds and ends so that I can stay home with my children. I wonder how many persons are in the same situation as I am and have thought about enrolling their kids into a Sudbury School w/o needing to as a necessity? My children, ages pre-teen to the oldest who just started college, have been radically unschooled. Some chose to try school outside of the home because they have that freedom but also chose to come back home. I like to pride myself in having completed 21 years of personal research into the different styles of schooling and have just recently re-checked into the Sudbury style of schooling. First I would like to say that it is very comforting to know there is a place out there that offers this type of unschooling in a private school setting. I wish there were more Sudbury schools around so that everyone could have the option to attend in their own town. Now having said that, Sudbury schools are fairly expensive and I can’t speak for all Unschoolers, but for me we just don’t have that kind of expendable income. In order for my children to be able to attend one of these schools we would have to a.) relocate because there are no Sudbury type schools around, which means selling the house we live in and having my husband find a new job and b.) myself going back into the work force, possibly full-time just to afford to enroll them. So my minds is thinking hummm, enroll them and sacrifice working my tush off all year and possibly start to resent it,especially if they ended up not liking it, or continue radically unschooling from home in the town I have lived in for almost 40 years and like a lot. The benefits I see with Sudbury is the networking with others and social interaction. They have lots of things they can choose to do. It would also calm their concerns that they are not “behind” on learning like other kids their age. On the other hand I think I could find things to do as a radical unschooler to open up my child’s social experiences if they so choose. One problem I think my kids would have with going into a Sudbury school is that it is mandatory to attend at least 5 hours each school day. I don’t think that they would be up to that long term. They love their freedom too much I think. Sure they would probably like it at first but than reality would set in and it wouldn’t be pretty for all concerned. So I got to thinking. Why don’t I just try and create more experiences for them instead of enrolling them into the Sudbury School? I wonder how many kids that are enrolled into the Sudbury Schools come from two or one parent working households that find it a necessity to have them somewhere all day while they are working? That is not the case for our situation. I am a stay-at-home and supplement my income doing odds and ends so that I can stay home with my children. I wonder how many persons are in the same situation as I am and have thought about enrolling their kids into a Sudbury School w/o needing to as a necessity?

]]> By: Michelle http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-596 Michelle Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:46:19 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-596 I love the ideas of Sudbury. Where I live, there is a Sudbury-like school where they do not discourage parents to be involved. Parents are encouraged to stay as long as they want and to even help out during the day. That way a child could 'see' his parent somewhere on the grounds while walking around in his daily pursuits. I also like the way we get a free 3 day trial as if enrolled. My son didn't care that he was in another room without me. So in summary, I think it depends on the readiness of parent and child to their level of separation and it depends on the willingness of the Sudbury school. I love the ideas of Sudbury. Where I live, there is a Sudbury-like school where they do not discourage parents to be involved. Parents are encouraged to stay as long as they want and to even help out during the day. That way a child could ’see’ his parent somewhere on the grounds while walking around in his daily pursuits. I also like the way we get a free 3 day trial as if enrolled. My son didn’t care that he was in another room without me. So in summary, I think it depends on the readiness of parent and child to their level of separation and it depends on the willingness of the Sudbury school.

]]> By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-489 Evan Lenz Mon, 05 Apr 2010 03:09:52 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-489 Hi Yeshe, thanks for chiming in. Yes, how kids might get those chances to separate for certain periods of time can vary; you're right that it doesn't have to be at a place called "school." I also agree emphatically that it depends on the family and the individuals. Blanket statements are sometimes useful--for clear, unambiguous communication of a key idea. Or for being provocative and making people think in new ways. But I agree that blanket statements are also in a sense "violent" to the phenomena by focusing on some things and ignoring others. Hi Yeshe, thanks for chiming in. Yes, how kids might get those chances to separate for certain periods of time can vary; you’re right that it doesn’t have to be at a place called “school.” I also agree emphatically that it depends on the family and the individuals. Blanket statements are sometimes useful–for clear, unambiguous communication of a key idea. Or for being provocative and making people think in new ways. But I agree that blanket statements are also in a sense “violent” to the phenomena by focusing on some things and ignoring others.

]]> By: Yeshe http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-488 Yeshe Sun, 04 Apr 2010 08:57:13 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-488 We unschool and I actually agree that sometimes, in some cases children can benefit from time away from their parents, particularly in pre-teen and teen years when independence can be liberating and a learning experience. On the other hand most of us would probably agree that teens and pre-teens need a safe home base from where they can test the waters so to speak and time away from the family doesn't always have to be in school . I feel it's all completely dependent on the family situation and blanket statements either way don't take in the bigger picture. :) Thanks, Yeshe. We unschool and I actually agree that sometimes, in some cases children can benefit from time away from their parents, particularly in pre-teen and teen years when independence can be liberating and a learning experience. On the other hand most of us would probably agree that teens and pre-teens need a safe home base from where they can test the waters so to speak and time away from the family doesn’t always have to be in school . I feel it’s all completely dependent on the family situation and blanket statements either way don’t take in the bigger picture. :)
Thanks,
Yeshe.

]]> By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-298 Evan Lenz Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:19:45 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-298 Frank, that's really interesting. The anti-parent sentiment would probably make me not want to present that choice to my own kids. And I'd miss them too much anyway. :-) At the same time, I think it's awesome your daughter had that opportunity. I imagine it was a real growth experience for her, whatever her positive/negative take on the experience. Frank, that’s really interesting. The anti-parent sentiment would probably make me not want to present that choice to my own kids. And I’d miss them too much anyway. :-) At the same time, I think it’s awesome your daughter had that opportunity. I imagine it was a real growth experience for her, whatever her positive/negative take on the experience.

]]> By: The Dark Side of Influence | Life Learning with Wendy Priesnitz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-297 The Dark Side of Influence | Life Learning with Wendy Priesnitz Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:41:03 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-297 [...] Dark Side of Influence A recent blog post by a dad with kids enrolled in a Sudbury Valley type school (SVS) has prompted me to think once [...] [...] Dark Side of Influence A recent blog post by a dad with kids enrolled in a Sudbury Valley type school (SVS) has prompted me to think once [...]

]]> By: Frank http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-296 Frank Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:15:10 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-296 Our younger daughter, Chloe, went to Summerhill for a term when she was 12. I'll be interested to read your future comments about your Sudbury school. We certainly had many discussions about the differences between Summerhill and our "radical" unschooling when she came home from that experience. One significant factor is that A. S. Neill espoused the separation of parents from the integral processes of Summerhill but I don't think he was especially anti-parent; however, his daughter, who's been running Summerhill since sometime in the 80s, *does* actively dislike and discourage any form of parental input in a distinctly antagonistic way. Our younger daughter, Chloe, went to Summerhill for a term when she was 12. I’ll be interested to read your future comments about your Sudbury school. We certainly had many discussions about the differences between Summerhill and our “radical” unschooling when she came home from that experience. One significant factor is that A. S. Neill espoused the separation of parents from the integral processes of Summerhill but I don’t think he was especially anti-parent; however, his daughter, who’s been running Summerhill since sometime in the 80s, *does* actively dislike and discourage any form of parental input in a distinctly antagonistic way.

]]> By: Wendy Priesnitz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-295 Wendy Priesnitz Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:26:16 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-295 Looking forward to them and to the continued discussion. There are lots of ways to define "parental influence." I'm not alone among unschoolers in finding that to be a problematic way to describe the relationship between adults and kids in a family. Looking forward to them and to the continued discussion. There are lots of ways to define “parental influence.” I’m not alone among unschoolers in finding that to be a problematic way to describe the relationship between adults and kids in a family.

]]> By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-293 Evan Lenz Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:16:23 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-293 Hi Wendy, short answer now. Longer answer in a post to follow. :-) Negativity wasn't intentional, although I can see how it could be interpreted that way. I think there are benefits to having some time away from parents, but that doesn't mean I think time with parents is bad. (Otherwise, I'd send my kids off to a boarding school.) I think I need to rephrase it so it doesn't sound like I'm bashing "parental influence." Posts to follow soon... Hi Wendy, short answer now. Longer answer in a post to follow. :-)

Negativity wasn’t intentional, although I can see how it could be interpreted that way. I think there are benefits to having some time away from parents, but that doesn’t mean I think time with parents is bad. (Otherwise, I’d send my kids off to a boarding school.) I think I need to rephrase it so it doesn’t sound like I’m bashing “parental influence.”

Posts to follow soon…

]]> By: Evan Lenz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-292 Evan Lenz Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:10:29 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-292 Hi Heather, thanks for stopping by. (BTW, I love the title of your blog!) I'll definitely be writing some more about this topic. Hi Heather, thanks for stopping by. (BTW, I love the title of your blog!) I’ll definitely be writing some more about this topic.

]]> By: Wendy Priesnitz http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-291 Wendy Priesnitz Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:27:23 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-291 Hi there, One of my problems with SVS is this idea of kids needing to be free from "parental influence." Care to elaborate? Am I reading something negative into that sentence in your post? And can families not be "democratic"? Looking forward to your feedback. Hi there,

One of my problems with SVS is this idea of kids needing to be free from “parental influence.” Care to elaborate? Am I reading something negative into that sentence in your post? And can families not be “democratic”? Looking forward to your feedback.

]]> By: Heather http://lenzonlearning.com/2010/02/unschooling-vs-sudbury-schooling/comment-page-1/#comment-290 Heather Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:44:00 +0000 http://lenzonlearning.com/?p=484#comment-290 I have been wanting to cover this on my blog for some time now. I never could quite articulate it the way I wanted. I haven't had much time to research Sudbury schools. Thanks so much. I will look forward to your future writing on this subject. I have been wanting to cover this on my blog for some time now. I never could quite articulate it the way I wanted. I haven’t had much time to research Sudbury schools. Thanks so much. I will look forward to your future writing on this subject.

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